When a celebrity such as Robin Williams passes from this world, there are many who site their contributions to the lives of people. In the case of Robin, it was his humor that the world remembers. Sadly, this planet and the people who inhabit it, are often focussed on superficial things and matters that have little or no eternal value.
Like many people, I loved Robin’s uncanny ability to move from one subject to the next at light speed—making fun of the frailties and foolishness of many subjects of human life.
Sadly, life is not a joke, and the brief time that we have here on earth is over very quickly. The issues that Robin faced which are the alleged cause of his depression—were not the true cause of his early death. It is often the case that those who need the most help, deflect their own sorrow by making light of their struggles and never really deal with the core issues of their sadness.
It is a fact of life that we were made to be loved by God. He created us for Himself and it is in Him that we find our purpose and personal satisfaction. Having lived in the world apart from God for many years before discovering His love, I suffered from a severe case of personal sadness over life. My own father dealt with depression during his entire existence and at the end, during his final year, only then did he seek God and find the answers he had searched for.
After a brief post on Hollowverse.com that Robin now believed in God, I was struck by the emotional response this brief statement caused in the hearts of so many. Those who do not believe in God, ridiculed those who do. They offered no intellectual answers to the questions of God’s existence, often recording a few vulgarities or cruel statements, then departing into their darkness. Christians argued doctrine and whether those who take their own lives could inherit heaven or hell. Very few of those who claimed to have a relationship with God offered any words of comfort or encouragement to those who were grieving over Robin’s untimely departure.
Fewer still considered that the decisions we make in this life will affect our happiness now, as well as after we depart this life. Having spent 40 years searching for credible answers to life’s most important questions, I was shocked by the number of young people who accept the regurgitated doctrines of other atheists—while never personally investigating the credible evidence for God themselves.
So many lives, so many lost, so few who seek genuine truth.
What is our real purpose in this life? Is it simply to make people laugh, become famous or wealthy, or are we here for a purpose greater than all these things?
Robin had everything that most people in this world seek after and rarely find—and it was not enough. Many people imagine that if they could accumulate enough money, or fame—they would be truly happy. Robin had an abundance of both and still he felt empty and sad.
It was not depression that caused Robin to take his own life—it was despair over living the life he had chosen. This is a frequently repeated story by those who become wealthy and famous. They do not achieve the happiness they imagined.
Jesus said it like this:
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? —Matthew 16:26
What good is all the fame and fortune that Robin Williams accumulated over the course of his life—since in the end he forfeited his own soul? He gave all he had for things that did not truly satisfy him. There was an abiding sadness in the eyes of Robin whenever he was not making people laugh. His own unhappiness was shrouded in a facade of despair that he could not overcome.
A person will never achieve lasting happiness of the soul, until they find the Living God. David described his own inner craving of the heart with these words:
As the deer pants for the water brooks, So pants my soul for You, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. —Psalms 42:1-2
David had suffered through moments of deep sadness, despair, and regrets over the bad decisions he had made in his life. The difference between David and many other men—he knew that God was the answer for all his sadness. When he came before the Lord and confessed his wrongful words and deeds, he found forgiveness and restoration for his soul. David’s lifetime of joy with God, in the midst of many failures, allowed him to endure the difficulties of life and its many trials.
The atheists doctrine of “no God,” leaves a person with the kind of utter despair and hopelessness that led Robin Williams to end his own life. In Robin’s mind, it would be better to die—rather than continue another day in despair. Those who ignore God and pretend that He is not real—find no adequate substitution. They claim freedom, while remaining in the chains of other addictions and vices. Their language and behavior is vile and lawless. They find no freedom in the very mantra they chant to the world: “God is not necessary,” while they display no real proof that their life without God is genuinely happy and free of burdens.
Those who come to God, through Jesus Christ, find not only the forgiveness of their sins, but a new life that is filled with purpose and joy. Yes their are many moments of difficulty for those who follow and believe in Jesus—but they are always overcome by abiding in and relying upon the Lord. I have suffered the loss of a wife, mother and father, a home by wildfire, the loss of career, money, and many friends. Through all these things, the Lord was so very near me, that I was unable to fall into utter despair. He sustained and cared for me—through every failure of my own, and those at the hands of other people. Not once in 40 years has He ever failed to sustain me and keep me from utter hopelessness. I have found the purpose for my existence in Jesus, and no one can ever convince me that He is not real. He is more a part of my life than my own heart which beats within my body, and the breath that I draw everyday in order to live.
I grieve for Robin and all those who give up their souls to gain the world, only to find that it has not satisfied the true longing of their heart. I pray that many will turn to Jesus and fall upon His amazing love and mercy and find what I have found—peace.
See Also:
The Key to Overcoming Depression, Anxiety, Suffering, and Despair: Remember
Categories: Atheists uneducated observations, Common errors of Atheists, Following Jesus, His Compassion, Salvation through Jesus, The Condition of the Heart
Robert Clifton Robinson 
Really truly beautiful, I very much resonate with your sentiments..
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Thank you
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Sorry, it was not my intention to cause you any harm.
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Sigh…..I’m trying hard not to get exasperated here. You are trying to explain the point of the exercise and you’ve yet to grasp it. You had an experience with “god” when you were a child. You set out on a journey to find that “god” in a Christian nation and found a Christian god. Who would have imagined? What are the chances of that?? I mean ONLY 95% or so identify as Christian here. And less than 1% identify as any other one religion. The same sample of people in Saudi Arabia gets you the same data set only it’s Muslims as the populace instead of Christians. This is direct evidence that people of either faith believe what the culture around them believes. This is because of an inherent bias toward believing like those around us. You can’t wave your hand and say you’re above cultural and sociological influence. That’s a load of rubbish. No matter how many times you do it. Your one personal experience of finding an answer, even had it been that you thought Allah was the correct choice, which would go against the statistics instead of with them, wouldn’t change those conclusions. Which means you really don’t matter. Sorry. Yet alone suffice to refute the point. You actually help illustrate it. Nobody is asserting that it is impossible to come to the correct conclusion based solely on the evidence. What is impossible is to have no bias at all and these statistics bear that out. One can also surmise that people are therefore NOT generally searching for the answers as you suggest. Yet alone with no bias or predisposition. Otherwise there would be no religious segregation based on geography. If people were analyzing the data and verifying the claims of religion (as you suggest) you’d either see A)assuming there is no clear answer, a vast assortment of religions in any one given population anywhere you look or B) Assuming there is a clear answer everyone skewing toward one particular religion everywhere you look. Neither of these happens. All of this trumps your “God placed….” “God chose….” “God saves….” Which is all religious blather and proof of nothing except that you really like talking about god. Again, saying a lot to avoid the issue and point completely. You’ve yet to address any of this. You keep waving your hand and dismissing the point entirely. Then adding more frivolous points to either try and overwhelm our readers or to muddy the discussion. The point is not all that difficult to grasp. And why you are struggling with it is beyond me? I’m struggling at this point to give you the benefit of the doubt that your intentions are not nefarious. You’ve yet to even approach that you were being dishonest. Merely sweeping that aside. I’ve let it slide for the sake of the conversation but I think it’s time to move along. How about we end on an amicable note and just agree to respectfully disagree.
Take care.
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Keith,
Thanks for taking the time to discuss these matters with me. I enjoyed our conversation and appreciate your honesty in expressing your feelings in these important subjects. All the best to you and your family in the years ahead.
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You lost when you couldn’t be truthful. I refuse to continue trying to have a conversation when you can’t be intellectually honest. If you can say with a straight face that having a near death experience had no influence on your acceptance of the Bible you’re down right delusional. Or a liar. I go with the latter at this point. Regardless, again your personal experience does not refute the point. Otherwise 85-90% of the people in Saudi Arabia wouldn’t be Muslim. While they may not all be gifted with the ability to do the intellectual gymnastics you pull off I’m pretty sure there’s enough of them smart enough to find the answer if it’s available. So again, my point is valid and merely waving your hand and saying you are above cultural and sociological influence (while having had as powerful an experience as ANYONE could have) and claiming the point refuted is bull and you know it. I don’t have the time nor the energy to quote the rebuttals to all the “science” you keep posting. See the comments section for others who did. I appreciate the tactic though. Regurgitate a vast amount of data and then force me to deal with every single point you can come up with. No doubt to claim you win when I miss a small point. All the while you ignore my arguments and wave them away without really addressing them. I’m done here. I have no interest in correcting your entire book for you. There are plenty of others who have done so nicely already. I encourage you to read a few of them. I hope at some point you can find a way to debate in a manner that isn’t deceptive and underhanded. Good day to you sir.
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KT,
My near death experience had every influence on my decision 12 years later to receive Jesus as my Savior. That was not your issue. You stated that the primary reason that people believe in God is due to their parents or people of influence i.e. environment influencing their decision. I explained that no earthly person caused me to seek God. It was Him coming to me, even when I was unaware and too young to understand what was happening, that caused my subsequent seeking later.
The point of this exercise is:
It is evidence that convinces people to believe in God, not parents, or their environment. If an intelligent and honest person follows the evidence, it will lead them to a reasonable conclusion that God must exist.
As far as those in other countries where Islam or other religions are taught, we must remember that religion does not save anyone. God saves the repentant who acknowledge their sins and seek forgiveness from Him. Jesus provided the way for this to take place, and whether a person understands all the details of salvation, God will save anyone who is seeking Him through the forgiveness of their sins by the salvation He has provided.
The thief on the cross had so thoroughly ruined his life that he was dying for his crimes. He even mocked Jesus at first, but as He observed His love in praying for His enemies who placed Him on the cross, his heart was changed. He simply said to Jesus: “Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Jesus turned to Him and said: “Today you will be with me in paradise.”
This Thief never went to Jesus church, was baptized, spoke in tongues or did a single good work, yet Jesus pronounced him saved, based on his simple statement: “remember me.” Jesus was looking into his heart and saw repentance and enough faith to believe.
God saves all people, for all time, in the same way, confession of sin, and trust in God’s salvation for their sins.
Those who were saved before Jesus died, looked forward to the salvation He would bring by the coming Messiah. Those who were saved after Jesus died, are saved by looking back to His Cross as the method for their salvation, as Jesus completed the work of the Messiah. All people are saved in the same way–by Jesus cross and resurrection.
I explain this in more detail here:
and here:
God has placed a knowledge of Himself in the heart of every person and a knowledge of their personal sins, in their conscience. If any person follows this knowledge that God exists and comes to Him in sincere repentance for their sins, regardless of how much they know of salvation God will save them. The Christian Gospel simply explains the mechanics of how salvation came about and how it works.
God chose one simple and efficient way to save all people, for all time…
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Dear Rob,
I am deeply saddened by the loss of Robin Williams, he brought so much laughter and happiness to me and to millions of others. I have been struggling with my feelings ever since I got the news of his death. I really want to thank you for your article, it has helped me to pin point and identify exactly what I have been feeling.
Just like you Rob, I grieve for Robin Williams and all those who give up their souls to gain the world. I am also grieved by the blatant ignorance and condemnation of so many people that do not know the Truth and don’t bother seeking it.
I would like to share this article with you, It is called “Where does Your Faith Fit in the Cosmos” it is an interview with physicist, Brian Swimme, who holds a Ph.D. in mathematical physics and is a professor of cosmology at the California Institute of Integral Studies. I was a skeptic years ago, until I read this article and it had a huge impact on me: http://www.thegreatstory.org/SwimmeUSC.pdf
I would also like to encourage you with the Truth: The blood of Jesus will NEVER lose its power. Here is a song I think you will like by the New Jersey Mass Choir, it is one of my all-time favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY6nqJtgOf0
Your sister in Christ,
Barbara
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Hi Rob,
I suppose I could have used another example as I wasn’t using the Nye debate as to the merits of young earth creationism, but rather the existence of God in the first place. Pulling out Bible verses doesn’t prove God’s existence. God exists because the Bible says so and the Bible is proof because God says so. That is circular logic.
“Yes Christians do sometimes take their own lives. I had a very close Christian friend who ended his life, many years ago. He reached a place where
He was no longer in a close relationship with the Lord, and was not diligent in remaining close to God. This resulted in mounting despair and guilt and he could no longer bear these things. Had he stayed in close fellowship with Jesus and continued in a vibrant relationship with the Lord, I am sure he would still be alive today.”
I am sorry to hear about your friend. But I don’t think neglecting a relationship with God had anything to with his suicide. No doubt being active in the church community can do wonderful things for people. They feel a sense of support and connectedness. It can be a good support system.
How did he lose his relationship with God? Did he stop attending church? Stop seeking pastoral counsel? Perhaps he wasn’t tithing anymore? Keeping the faith doesn’t require any of these things. That is like saying if he remained a true Christian he wouldn’t have taken his own life. Which, again, is the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
“Having been a pastor for over 20 years and sat before hopeless people on hundred of occasions, it is most often regret for the life a person has lived and dealing with the intense guilt as a result of their decisions, that cast many people into depression or hopelessness. It is my opinion, based on 20 years of personal research, that depression is largely caused by unresolved guilt.”
You are a pastor, but do you have any educational background in counseling or social work? Perhaps you are projecting to those you have sat in counsel with? Your conclusions you have drawn are anecdotal in nature.
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I had said earlier, “I believe that theists have different standards/thresholds of evidence upon which they come into the opposite conclusion regarding the existence of God.”. I wasn’t referring to Young Earth Creationism and yet you were. Why the straw man? My issue wasn’t how old/young the Earth is but rather the very existence or lack thereof of a God.
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Adam,
Thanks for exchanging some of your ideas with me and for making some great points. I enjoyed our brief discussion and hope we can spend some more time on important issues in the future.
Rob
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Barbara,
Thank your or your kind words and expression of compassion for Robin and his family, particularly his dear wife and children–who will miss him immensely.
We can only continue to believe in the goodness of God and His ever-present grace and mercy towards all those who call upon Him–even in the final moments of their life.
Rob
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Discussion over. You are either incapable or unwilling to be truthful. Either way it’s not a real good reflection on you. I rescind my surrender. What a tool.
Born in Phoenix, Arizona. At the age of 7, while playing in the desert of Scottsdale, Arizona, Rob was bitten by a baby Diamondback Rattlesnake. Running home to his mother, severely increased the effectiveness of the snake venom and placed his life in great jeopardy. Doctors gave little chance of his survival and suggested that his parents should contact their pastor or priest for last rights. While unconscious, Rob experienced a physical presence in a blinding white light that comforted and informed him that he would not die. In miracle after miracle, Rob survived this horrific ordeal and began his search for the person who spoke to him while unconscious, during his near-death experience. After examining the claims of Jesus, the reliability of the Bible and the empirical evidence which supports evidence for the existence of God, at the age of 19, Rob went forward at Calvary Chapel Church in southern California to receive Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, realizing that He was the person who had spoken to him and preserved his young life, 12 years before.
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KT,
When you assert that religion is nothing more than the result of a person’s upbringing, this presents a large problem. In my case, my parents did not go to church, nor were they religious. I didn’t know anything about God at seven when I was bitten by the rattlesnake. I didn’t understand what was happening to me on the table as I was dying. I could feel my life slipping away and I was filled with fear, but I didn’t call out to God, because I didn’t know Him.
He came to me and spoke to me, and even then, I didn’t know who He was. It was not until twelve years later that I realized who had spoken to me and why He had saved my life. So, this discovery of God had nothing to do with any prior experience or indoctrination into religion by my parents or my environment.
You said:
“If god chose to reveal himself through the bible in a time of such limited understanding he chose a very poor medium to do so and I don’t believe one could honestly be expected to suffer an eternity of suffering for a decision that isn’t easily obtained for anyone who looks for the truth.”
Response:
What limited understanding are you speaking of? At what period of history?
Since it is by words that human beings communicate with each other, it is reasonable that God would reveal Himself also by words. Before the Bible was written, knowledge of God was passed from generation to generation by oral testimony.
The ancient world which did not have the ability to write, publish, and distribute materials to the masses, relied on the oral tradition. More than the telling of stories, the oral tradition was a major part of education and viewed as essential to conveying the facts of history—which required preservation. In the Hebrew oral tradition, teachers memorized entire books, by simply listening to them being spoken over and over. Students were taught to memorize everything that their teachers said or taught. When accounts of what God had said were being revealed, students memorized these accounts word for word, and were then tested for accuracy by recounting what they had learned—back to their teachers. In this early world before the distribution of books, this was considered the greatest and most important part of their life as followers of God. Because of their high regard for the oral tradition used by those who memorized the words of God, we have great confidence today that what is written in the Old Testament scriptures are absolutely reliable and are an accurate account of the true words of God.[1]
It is well understood today that oral tradition held a very high degree of authenticity and reliability also in the early days of the Christian church. Because of the high regard for oral traditions handed down to the writers of the New Testament, the Gospel accounts of Jesus are considered today, absolutely reliable and credible accounts of the actual events which took place in the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth.[2]
For this reason, the telling of the story of God’s redemption was widely known in the ancient world, by these accurate oral traditions.
[1] Rediscovering the Traditions of Israel by Douglas A. Knight 1973. Semeia (1976a), The Hebrew Bible and Its Modern Interpreters (1984) An encyclopedia on oral tradition by Robert E. Coote in 1976 Leander E. Keck, “Oral Traditional Literature and the Gospels: The Seminar” (1978). Werner Kelber’s work (1979, 1983) Güttgemanns (1979, original German 1971)
[2] Gerhadsson, B. (1998). Memory and Manuscript: Oral Tradition and Written Transmission in Rabbinic Judaism and Early Christianity with Tradition aand Transmission in Early Christianity Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co
You said:
“If god can and does make his decision in the manner you assert then you can’t attribute all the flowery adjectives you like to attach to god. I will continue my search for truth but there’s little chance that science is going to change enough to disprove the prevailing notions of human and cosmic origin.”
Response:
Science has changed its position on the existence of God profoundly in the past 50 years. Since Wilson and Penzias discovered CMBR in 1964, which conclusively proved that the universe was not eternal, but had a beginning, intellectually honest scientists were forced to admit that the universe could not come into existence by itself.
For an eternity past, there was nothing: No time, no space, no matter. At the singularity of the Big Bang, all three began to exist. More staggering, the universe came into existence from nothing. Everything cannot come from nothing, highly functioning machines do not begin to exist on their own. The universe has been compared to a finely tuned machine, operating by the laws of physics and mathematics.
1. Since scientists agree that the universe had a stunning and singular beginning, why did it begin, since for an eternity past, there was no time, space, or matter?
2. Since there was nothing before the universe began, what did it begin from?
3. Since the universe was clearly controlled to exact a precise outcome by a finely calibrated expansion, which included a specific period of inflation, how could this occur by a purely naturalistic process?
4. Why does the universe exhibit clear evidence of being ordered and controlled so that advance life forms could be possible, 13 billion years later?
5. Why do we have the particular universe that we have, which allows for life, since scientists agree that the universe we should have, given the elements and conditions which were present during the Plank-time of the first picoseconds of the universe–would not have been sufficient to allow second generation stars, millions of years later, which produced carbon, necessary for human life?
The answers to these first questions and dozens more, lead scientists and cosmologists to conclude that an intelligence, transcendent of time, space, and matter, was involved in the creation of the universe.
This evidence is supported by more than 1,400 citations from scientists, cosmologists, mathematicians, and other noted and prize winning scientists, all fully documented in my books–and my web site. This is the authority for the things which I assert.
I discuss these facts, and many, many more, in my article: 40 Empirical Facts that Prove the Existence of God.
There is great scientific evidence for the existence of God–the universe. These are not purely philosophical issues, they are deeply scientific and require scientific explanations to understand how everything came from nothing. It is interesting that the manner in which cosmologists described the universe today, is precisely how the first line of the Bible describes the universe;
In the beginning, God created (bara, from nothing) the heavens and the earth…”
God is the only reasonable answer for the existence of the universe. No scientist can adequately explain the beginning of the universe and its development over the past 13.7 billion years, by purely naturalistic causes.
No scientists can adequately explain how life began. The latest effort is to resort to mysticism, by describing aliens bringing genetic material to the earth, or it arriving on the back of an asteroid.
You said:
” I think it becomes very difficult to arrive at the same conclusions as the bible without putting on some rather skewed glasses to view the evidence.”
What conclusions are you speaking of? In fact, there are many scientific statements which the Bible asserts, that were completely unknown to man at the time the were written in the Bible.
One of the most stunning proofs for the existence of God is found in the Bible. How is it possible that mere men who penned the words of Hebrew and Greek scriptures could have intimate knowledge of the operation of the universe and the earth itself? The Bible claims that an infinite and eternal intelligence communicated knowledge to certain men who set themselves apart to receive this communication. The results of this conveyance of information is revealed in various places throughout the Bible.
We are astounded to learn that many of the facts of science that are known today were recorded in the pages of the Bible hundreds of years before any man knew or understood these principles. The Bible is full of specific and accurate statements about the laws of physics regarding:
The nature of our solar system
The nature of the earth
The life forms on planet earth
The beginning of the universe
In May 1964, Dr. Arno Penzias and Dr. Robert Wilson discovered Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation that proved conclusively that the universe had a sudden and instantaneous beginning.[1]
The first verse of the Bible speaks of the beginning of Time, Space, and Matter instantaneously by the direct creation of God:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (Time) God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter).
Notice that time, space, and matter are in the correct order that they should be.
Number of stars
When the Bible was written, there were no telescopes to determine the number of stars that exist in the universe. During the earlier history of mankind, the total number of stars that could be seen with the naked eye were no more than 3-4,000. Yet, Jeremiah the prophet wrote 2,700 years ago that the actual number is so great, that they cannot be numbered.
Jeremiah 33:22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered.
It is impossible that this simple prophet could have known that there are an immense number of stars in the universe, without the aid of a telescope. Where did he learn this? Who told him that the multitude of celestial hosts were too great to number?
Recent discoveries through the use of powerful observational instruments at Keck Observatory in Hawaii, have revealed that small dim stars known as red dwarfs are in far greater numbers than previously believed. This added ability to see so many more stars than was previously possible has boosted the estimated number of stars in the known universe by three hundred percent to about 300 Sextillion stars or three hundred thousand trillion.[2]
The Sun follows a circuit
Three thousand years ago, the writer of Psalm 19 described the Sun as following a circuit or circular course through the universe.
Psalms 19:4-6 He has set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, 5 And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. 6 Its rising is from one end of heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
Three thousand years ago, scientists believed that the sun rotated around the earth. They had no idea that the opposite was true—the earth was in fact part of system of planets in which the sun was at the center. During the earlier history of mankind, the concept of our sun moving through a universe of other stars and planets in a circuit was incomprehensible. The sun was first spoken of as the center of the solar system by the Greek Aristarchus in the third century. It was not until the 17th century when Copernicus invented the telescope, that he was able to observe other planets passing between earth and the sun.[3]
God told us, in His word, that the sun moved through the universe in a circuit, thousands of years before any man knew this fact.
Today, through the use of powerful telescopes, we know that the sun is part of an enormous spiral galaxy called the Milky Way. The sun moves in a circuit or circular course through the universe at speeds of more than 251 kilometers per second or 561,471.009 miles per hour.[4] It will take our solar system 225-230 million years to complete one circuit or orbit through the Milky Way Galaxy.[5]
How did David know these facts 3,000 years ago when he wrote Psalms 19:4-6? Jesus identifies David as a prophet who was given advanced knowledge of details otherwise unknown to men (Mt. 22:43, Mk. 12:36, Lk. 20:42). David also accurately predicted the entire death and crucifixion of Jesus in Psalm 22 almost 1,000 years before Jesus was born. The Bible claims that God gave transcendent knowledge of the heavens, the earth, and Himself, to certain individuals—by His Spirit.
2 Peter 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
The amazing power of the Living God enables Him to speak to men who have set themselves apart—to be used by Him. These men wrote the words of the Bible under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, and recording the specific details which He wanted to communicate. It is logical that if there is a Being who has the technology and power to create this vast and complex universe, He is certainly able to cause certain men to record the words that He desires to communicate to us and preserve these words over time.
The Earth is a sphere
From the time that Greek Mathematician, Pythagoras first proposed in the 6th century B.C., that the earth was a sphere, many scientists and scholars held the spherical earth theory.[6] According to author Stephen Jay Gould:
“There never was a period of ‘flat earth darkness’ among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the Earth’s roundness as an established fact of cosmology.”[7]
300 years before Jesus was born, the actual first proof that the earth was a sphere was given by Eratosthenes who measured the circumference of the Earth.[8]
The Greek philosophers, Hipparchus and Aristotle, 200 years before Jesus was born—both reached the same conclusion—the earth was really a sphere.[9]
This is all very interesting since the Bible recorded the fact that the earth was a “circle” nearly 2,800 years ago. This is more than 100 years before the Greek Mathematician Pythagoras proposed that the earth was a sphere. In fact—it is likely that Pythagoras first learned that the earth was a sphere from reading the Hebrew scriptures which were known to many of the early philosophers of that period. It is from the text of the prophet Isaiah that the world first learned that the earth is a “circle.”
Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah described earth’s true nature under the direction of the Holy Spirit more than a century before any scientist developed this concept. The original Hebrew word that Isaiah used for circle is “khug,” which could be translated as circle or sphere.
Earth hangs in empty space
For much of the earth’s early history, it was believed that our planet rested upon Atlas or Hercules. The Hindus said that the earth sat upon a giant elephant or a turtle.
It was this belief by Hindus that noted Atheist Bertrand Russell once compared the Christian belief in God as also illogical—based on the claim that God has no first cause.
“If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu’s view, that the world rested upon an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, ‘How about the tortoise?’ the Indian said, ‘Suppose we change the subject.”[10]
Of course we know today that this argument is fundamentally flawed since scientists fully stipulate that the universe had a beginning. Scientist also believe presently that matter is eternal—with no first cause.[11] Therefore, the concept of a person who is eternal with no first cause should not be that difficult to comprehend, unless of course it is only living being which scientists cannot conceive of as eternal. Something which is eternal has no need of a first cause. By the fact of His eternal existence, God must of necessity—exist uncaused and Himself be the first cause of all things which have a beginning.
The concept of earth floating freely in empty space was a completely unknown and unrealistic idea to all ancient societies. Still, in the oldest book of the Bible, Job provides an incredible piece of scientific information about what actually holds the earth in space.
Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.
Not a single person on the earth during the time of Job, had any idea that the earth was suspended by gravity over empty space. It was impossible that Job could have known this by himself. God told Job this fact, and he recorded it for all mankind in the Hebrew scriptures. The problem is that most of the intellectual and highly educated men and women of the world, pay no attention to the Bible.
God placed scientific, mathematical and astronomical facts about the earth and the universe in the Bible so that when they were discovered, it would be known that this information came from an intelligence outside of earth, even time and space themselves.
The Atom
A scientific discovery that has only been known in the last 100 years is the atomic structure of the atom. All matter in the universe is made up of invisible materials consisting of atoms which have smaller internal components called protons, neutrons, and electrons. Within these microscopic parts of the atom are even smaller and completely invisible components called quarks, pions, and gluons.
Almost 2,000 years before scientists discovered the atom and its subatomic components, the Bible contained a verse of scripture that says that “all the things that we can see are made up of things that are invisible.”
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
If the Bible was written only by men, how does it contain information that no man knew at the time the books of the Bible were written? How did Paul know about the invisible properties of the atom, almost 2,000 years before scientists discovered them?
Pathways through the seas
In 1855, a man by the name of Matthew Fontaine Maury, published a book regarding his discovery of the currents within the oceans of the world. In Maury’s book, he wrote that if ships would use these “passageways in the seas,” they could greatly increase their speed through which they traveled from land to land across the oceans. Today, Maury is referred to as “the father of oceanography” and “the pathfinder of the seas.”[12]
Knowledge of these ocean currents that act as rivers through the seas is widely known and utilized today. Once a ship is placed within these paths in the sea, they are moved along at a much greater pace, using less fuel and time.
Nearly 3,000 years before Maury wrote his book on the pathways of the seas, the Bible contained the 8th Psalm, with verse 8 which reads:
Psalms 8:8 … the fish of the sea …That pass through the paths of the seas.
Nearly 800 years before the arrival of Jesus, the Prophet Isaiah wrote:
Isaiah 43:16 Thus says the LORD, who makes a way in the sea And a path through the mighty waters…
At the time that Isaiah wrote this verse, no one had any knowledge of these paths through the sea; they would not be discovered for nearly 2,700 years. The only seas that were known during the time of Isaiah’s writing were the Mediterranean Sea, the Red Sea, the Sea of Galilee, and the Dead Sea. None of these bodies of water had a path through them.
The Bible demonstrates over and over again that God predicted and revealed information about the earth, the heavens, and the events of the future through His word. He did this so that we would know that He is the Author of the Bible, and that there is a Creator who exists and has made this great and magnificent universe.
It is certainly unreasonable to deny that the Bible had previously recorded these scientific facts, hundreds or thousands of years before any scientist discovered them. We know for certain that the words of these prophecies of scientific knowledge were documented on the parchment of Hebrew and Greek scriptures, long before they were known to science.
The books of the Bible which contain these amazing scientific facts have been carefully examined and scrutinized by scholars on many occasions over the past several hundred years. The very reason that the Bible exists at all today is due to its careful inspection and verification of authenticity. There is no other set of documents in antiquity that have been so closely examined and confirmed as the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts of the Old and New Testament Bible.
For example, the widely criticized Book of Isaiah was a part of the Pentateuch, which was written almost 2,300 years ago. All the words of Isaiah, including Isaiah 43:16, regarding the “paths of the seas” were in the Pentateuch version of Isaiah—2,000 years before these paths were discovered by man.
The Hydrologic Cycle
Today, we can turn on the television or click on the internet and find out what the weather will be like in our own neighborhood, or nearly anyplace on the earth, in just a few minutes. The Hydrological cycles that control the wind, the clouds, and the moisture which produce our rain, snow, and hail, were discovered about 300 years ago by the French Scientists, Parrault and Edme Mariotte. These men discovered the cycle of wind that evaporates the lakes and seas, which causes the clouds to form, that release the precipitation, which waters the earth.[13]
This is referred to as the “Hydrologic Cycle.” The basic principles of this phenomenon are necessary in understanding the weather patterns of the earth.
About 4,000 years before these astute French Scientists discovered this Hydrologic Cycle, the Book of Job records these words from God:
Job 36:27-28 For He draws up drops of water, Which distill as rain from the mist, 28 Which the clouds drop down And pour abundantly on man.
The Creator of the earth told us about the Hydrologic Cycle—four Millennia before any man knew that it existed.
Even Solomon wrote 3,000 years ago:
Ecclesiastes 1:6-7 The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. 7 All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again.

[1] 1. Penzias, A.A.; Wilson, R.W. (1965). “A Measurement of Excess Antenna Temperature at 4080 Mc/s”. Astrophysical Journal 142: 419–421. Bibcode:1965ApJ…142..419P. doi:10.1086/148307
2. Oxford Dictionary of Scientists: Arno Allan Penzias
[2] Pieter van Dokkum, chairman, Professor, Astronomy and Physics/Chairman, Department of Astronomy, Yale university.
[3] Galileo Galilei (1564–1642). BBC. Retrieved 2006-03-22.
[4] Croswell, K. (2008). “Milky Way keeps tight grip on its neighbor”. New Scientist (2669): 8
[5] Leong, S. (2002). “Period of the Sun’s Orbit around the Galaxy (Cosmic Year)”. The Physics Factbook. Retrieved 2007-05-10.
[6] 1. Dicks, D.R. (1970). Early Greek Astronomy to Aristotle. Ithaca, N.Y.: Cornell University Press. pp. 72–198. ISBN 978-0-8014-0561-7.
2. Christoph Riedweg, Pythagoras: His Life, Teaching and Influence, Cornell: Cornell University Press, 2005
[7] Gould, Stephen J. (2011 [1999]), “Columbus and the Flat Earth: An Example of the Fallacy of Warfare between Science and Religion”, Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life (e-book ed.), New York: Random House LLC, ISBN 978-0-307-80141-8
[8] Alfred, Randy (June 19, 2008). “June 19, 240 B.C.: The Earth Is Round, and It’s This Big”
[9] 1. G J Toomer’s chapter “Ptolemy and his Greek Predecessors” in “Astronomy Before the Telescope”, British Museum Press, 1996
2. Aristotle, Meteorology 1.8, trans. E.W. Webster, rev. J. Barnes.
[10] Bertrand Russell’s lecture: “Why I am not a Christian,” 1927
[11] 1. Lennox, John (2011-02-18). God’s Undertaker (p. 185). Lion Hudson. Kindle Edition.
2. Aristotle in Physics I, 7
[12] Diana Fontaine Maury-Corbin “Life of Matthew Fontaine Maury USN & CSN” Life of Matthew Fontaine Maury, U.S.N. and C.S.N. David L. Cohn Pathfinder of the Seas. The Nautical Gazette, May ’40
[13] Brutsaert 2005, pp. 572 ff.
You said:
“It would be quite a conspiracy for the science that troubles the Bible to all be wrong while so much of it we rely on every day is correct. The concerted effort that would require by the masses makes this almost unfathomable. I honestly hope I’m wrong. I just don’t think there’s sufficient evidence that makes it clear to a reasonable person who is sincerely looking for the truth that god exists and if he does that any one religion has the straight undeniable way to him/her/it. Take care.”
Response:
Religion is not the answer for knowing God. Religion is a creation of man, by men who sought to control the minds and actions of people. God designed a simple and easy to understand manner in which anyone can know Him. First, He placed a knowledge of Himself inside the heart of every person, so that we are without excuse. Second, He revealed Himself by the universe and everything that He has made. Third, He revealed Himself in the person of His Son, Jesus. Whatever you might think of Christians and their consistent failure to properly display what Christ is truly like, Jesus is not like Christians, He is perfect every regard and He has done nothing but love you and I with all that He has, since He first created the universe.
I pray for your success in finding truth in your life and discovering all that God has planned for you, much more than you could ever think or imagine.
Rob
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“In order to accept what you have stated regarding evidence, then you would have to believe that many millions of other intelligent men and women, who have done the proper work of examining facts and have come to the opposite conclusions that you have come to, are not very intelligent.”
As brought up in the Ken Ham/Bill Nye debate, atheists and theists alike share the same sprectrum of intelligence. I believe that theists have different standards/thresholds of evidence upon which they come into the opposite conclusion regarding the existence of God.
“Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
If the Bible was written only by men, how does it contain information that no man knew at the time the books of the Bible were written? How did Paul know about the invisible properties of the atom, almost 2,000 years before scientists discovered them?”
To answer, consider the following passage: “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!” (Romans 11:33)
Paul didn’t know the properties of the atom. Since the belief is that the world is made by God’s word and we don’t know his entire being, Paul only knew the invisible properties to be the part of God’s way that cannot be seen.
“The atheists doctrine of “no God,” leaves a person with the kind of utter despair and hopelessness that led Robin Williams to end his own life. In Robin’s mind, it would be better to die—rather than continue another day in despair. Those who ignore God and pretend that He is not real—find no adequate substitution.”
This is completely false. What about open and devout Christians who take their own life? I guess having God in their hearts wasn’t enough. That or they didn’t truly take Him into their hearts. That they weren’t Christian enough. That is the logical fallacy “no true Scotsman”. There is more than one way to be a Christian.
What would have prevented him from taking his life? Someone by his side to stop him. A phone call right before the act. One simple gesture to show that he isn’t alone. Good medication. Take your pick. Those are tangible, real world solutions to suicide. Given that the existence of God is unproven, the joy that God brings to His followers may just be placebo. I wouldn’t want my happiness hinging on a placebo.
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Adam,
Thank you for taking your valuable time to comment on subjects that are so important to many people.
unfortunately, the debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham is not a good example of the true and verifiable position of the Bible and other noted Christian Scholars. Ken Ham believes the universe is only about 10,000 years old and the Genesis account is describing six literal days for the creation of the world. I do not hold this position, I wrote an extensive article on this subject and addressed it is my book: “A Universe From God.” https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2014/07/24/the-beginning-of-the-universe-reconciling-6-days-with-13-7-billion-years/
Perhaps this is the reason that you stated that Christians “theists have different standards/thresholds of evidence upon which they come.”
I do not approach science differently from scientists, I simply evaluate the evidence that is available, and follow the evidence where it leads. Today, the evidence leads to the conclusion that science cannot explain the singularity of the universe at its beginning, nor during its subsequent development–by purely naturalistic explanations. For this reason, myself and many others, believe that an intelligence is a more logical and reasonable explanation for the evidence that is presented to us by the universe. These are not merely philosophical augments, but deeply rooted in the basics of science, mathematics, and physics.
Science can explain the universe and how it operates, but it cannot tell us why the universe exists int the first place. For this, only people like myself who believe that God is the reason for the Cosmos, can bring both science and cause together. If scientists cannot tell us how the universe came into being, why it is here in the first place, or even why it developed in the manner that is has–to allow for intelligent life, then it is reasonable that the only other viable explanation is an intelligent being engineered and orchestrated the cosmos for us. I really don’t know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp, it makes perfect sense, given the evidence which is presented to us.
Science can tell us how life evolves in adapting to its environment, but it cannot tell us where life came from in the first place, or how it first came into being on the earth. Today, science is left with mystical explanations for the beginning of life that is tantamount to the same mysticism that scientists formerly accused Christians of perpetrating on science–to explain the universe and origin of life.
As far as Robin Williams, who I deeply love, as i am sure you do. I am grieved over the loss of much more than his physical life. His story is too often repeated in the stories of the rich and famous. There are a very long list of famous and wealthy men and women who have died by drug overdose, or suicide, because they reached a hopeless place in their life. Depression is not always an adequate explanation for suicide, as none of us know the genuine reasons why people take their lives.
Having been a pastor for over 20 years and sat before hopeless people on hundred of occasions, it is most often regret for the life a person has lived and dealing with the intense guilt as a result of their decisions, that cast many people into depression or hopelessness. It is my opinion, based on 20 years of personal research, that depression is largely caused by unresolved guilt.
Human beings were created by God with a conscience. When we follow our conscience and do what we know is right, we are happier people. When we violate our conscience and do those things that we know are wrong, we feel guilt. Unless this guilt is lifted by God, who is the only person who has the right and ability to forgive our sins and lift our guilt, over a long period of time, the mounting guilt places many people into deep depression and they lose hope in their life. My own father spent 70 plus years dealing with depression and it was not until his final year of his life, when he finally found forgiveness for his sins, that all his depression lifted and was gone. He told me that he didn’t know why he waited so long.
Yes Christians do sometimes take their own lives. I had a very close Christian friend who ended his life, many years ago. He reached a place where
He was no longer in a close relationship with the Lord, and was not diligent in remaining close to God. This resulted in mounting despair and guilt and he could no longer bear these things. Had he stayed in close fellowship with Jesus and continued in a vibrant relationship with the Lord, I am sure he would still be alive today. When anyone forgets God in their life, the results are always tragic, for themselves, and for those who love them.
It is certain that atheism offers no hope to the mind or soul of any human being. In the words of atheists physicists, Lawrence Krauss:
“The picture that science presents to us is, in some sense, uncomfortable because what we’ve learned is that we are more insignificant than we ever could have imagined. You could get rid of us and all the galaxies and everything we see in the universe and it will be largely the same. So we’re insignificant on a scale that Copernicus never would have imagined. And in addition, it turns out the future is miserable. So the two main lessons that I like to say I like to give is first we’re insignificant and second the future is miserable.”[1]
This is in contrast to what God declares about each one of us from His word:
Jeremiah 31:3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying: Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
Psalm 139:17-18 How precious are your thoughts about me, O God. They cannot be numbered! I can’t even count them; they outnumber the grains of sand! (NLT)
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
God created the universe for a purpose: to declare to all mankind His great power and love, and the fact of His salvation—when He allowed His only Son to die for ours sins so that anyone who would believe in Him would have eternal life.
Now that is value!
So, Lawrence Krauss is wrong. The universe was created by God to display the magnificence of God. Much as an artist uses a canvas to display his abilities as one who can create beauty, design, and order—God has put Himself on public display so that every human being might know that He exists. Each one of us were created by Him with a purpose, for a purpose. It is in God that we find who we are and the reason for our existence.
Contrary to Dr. Krauss’ bleak portrayal of life—the future is bright and filled with hope for all those who acknowledge God in their life and come to Him through His Son—Jesus Christ.
There is a good reason why only four percent of the world believes what Lawrence Krauss exposes—there is no hope in the message of a world without God.

[1] From “Big Think,” an interview with Lawrence Krauss. http://bigthink.com/videos/lawrence-krauss-from-a-cosmic-perspective-were-irrelevant-its-up-to-us-to-give-our-lives-meaning
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Pointing to your personal experience doesn’t invalidate the point. You can’t seriously be arguing that your experience is that of the majority. It’s one point which addresses the way a person views everything. It can’t be dismissed with a wave of the hand by saying “I’m above cultural and sociological influence” that’s poppy cock and you know it. We are creatures of the time and place in which we live. One only need to look at Christianity itself. The religion you follow today is not the one followed in the 1800’s or the 1600’s. This is an undeniable truth. As such everyone looks at information through that lens. We can go round and round and you and I both know neither side is going to be able to claim victory other than from attrition. Every argument you have I can find the counter argument and vice versa. If it were easily refuted one way or the other there wouldn’t be hundreds of people like you shilling books on the subject from either side. I’m on a message board at 3 am for reasons that are beyond me. As such I surrender. Take care.
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Since you were nice enough to reply and welcome me I’ll take one more swing at posting. Not to be ugly but this will be it for me. I’ve exceeded all measure of time and energy I need to expend on something not tangible to my every day life. I’m glad you pointed out that when we pay attention to one group we only get their view point. How many of your readers can say they honestly addressed the topics I broached above from both sides of the argument? You can’t ignore the confirmation bias that comes inherently with living where you live either. Which is why I don’t think religion is a matter of intelligence for the most part. Regardless of your station or direct exposure to religion the vast majority of us are exposed to it and taught it before we have any business making that sort of decision in life. It’s not an accident that people believe what their parents believe. Overcoming that hurdle to disbelief is one of the key reasons people don’t deny faith. It takes a monumental amount of evidence to overcome these inherent biases. Most never even try to find the truth. I would contend this is the reason you see such high numbers of belief. Otherwise you wouldn’t see this sort of segregation based on where you happen to be born. This is not just a matter of mere chance. The statistics don’t lie in this respect. Either the answer isn’t readily available or where you are born necessarily biases what you believe. That eternity would be left almost exclusively to the chance of birth is more than a little troubling. I think it takes a bit of hubris to think that if I only understood like you understand that I’d “get it”. I assure you I’ve done more research than would be considered prudent and necessary by anyone expecting one to make a decision. That god could be so difficult to be found for people truly searching only goes to illustrate how ridiculous the expectations of Christianity are. If god chose to reveal himself through the bible in a time of such limited understanding he chose a very poor medium to do so and I don’t believe one could honestly be expected to suffer an eternity of suffering for a decision that isn’t easily obtained for anyone who looks for the truth. If god can and does make his decision in the manner you assert then you can’t attribute all the flowery adjectives you like to attach to god. I will continue my search for truth but there’s little chance that science is going to change enough to disprove the prevailing notions of human and cosmic origin. Or history. Or the problems each religion is posed with from it’s various short comings. I’d also have to set aside what I’ve seen in my every day life. There would need to be something that can only be explained by god. Not an assertion from a point about a lack of understanding or trying to argue from the “gaps”. Something explicit. Otherwise I have no choice but to dismiss much of what is described in the bible. While I realize you can find arguments that disagree with the main stream I think it becomes very difficult to arrive at the same conclusions as the bible without putting on some rather skewed glasses to view the evidence. It would be quite a conspiracy for the science that troubles the Bible to all be wrong while so much of it we rely on every day is correct. The concerted effort that would require by the masses makes this almost unfathomable. I honestly hope I’m wrong. I just don’t think there’s sufficient evidence that makes it clear to a reasonable person who is sincerely looking for the truth that god exists and if he does that any one religion has the straight undeniable way to him/her/it. Take care.
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KT,
Your primary argument seems to be based primarily on birth and whether or not a person is exposed to religion at an early age, or by influence from their family.
This is a difficult argument to sustain, given that there are many millions of people, like myself, who were not raised in religious homes, nor taught anything about God.
This argument also does not take into consideration, that religion had very little to do with my personal decision to accept the Bible as truth, and Jesus as a real person of history. It had nothing to do with my belief that God exists. I arrived, as many of my colleagues have, at my conclusions–based on the evidence of history, paleography, science and cosmology.
Your arguments are reminiscent of assertions that I have heard myself from college professors who espouse that God cannot be proven from empirical evidence. Of course, their suppositions and conclusions originate from a bias that God must not exist, even before the evidence is considered.
It sounds as though you have already arrived at your own conclusions and are not willing to consider any further data. I respect that position and I would not try to change your mind. I can only state that where you are, is a very common place of insufficiency. There is far more that you do not know, nor have discovered yet–than you do know.
Continue your life’s journey with an open mind–to follow the evidence wherever it leads…
Rob
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Hi Robert,
> Just a note to thank you for your poignant piece on the passing of Robin Williams.
> I was trying to articulate something in my spirit since I read about Robin’s suicide. Have been a fan of his since mork and mindy when i was just 15 years old, and even more of one after Dead Poets Society et al. Yet, i couldn’t reconcile his humane and compassionate movies with the cynical stuff he sometimes put out in ‘live’ shows. But the latter isn’t about why i am writing this.
> I am writing this to thank you for your Spirit-led article that clearly articulates in a loving and yet real way what i feel about Mr Williams and about life itself. My heart of course also goes out to Robin’s family and friends.
God bless.
> Thanks again.
> Joseph, Singapore
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Every knee will bow. It doesn’t say you have to believe or want to but you will bow before the Lord one day. I really hope that you have searched all of this for yourself rather than just choose not to believe based on televangelist or the like. Read the Bible and at least decide for yourself. He IS REAL! I spoke to him this morning!!!
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Brenda, I have searched it all. In fact I spent many years as a Christian. Got all fuzzy feeling and goose bumps every time I prayed or went to church. Lived it to the extreme for a while. Then I studied science and history. It brought up some very difficult questions. Contrary to what Mr. Robinson would have you think they are not easily dismissed. I’ve looked at his attempts to do so and they fall flat. If you need a detailed rebuttal to all his writings I suggest checking out John Loftus Why I’m not a Christian and Richard Carrier’s On the Historicity of Jesus. While they aren’t with out fault anything you find legitimate disagreement with you can discuss with Mr. Carrier on his blog. I’ll be extremely impressed if you can find a point he’s wrong on and he won’t correct. Anyway, so I asked myself why do I believe what I believe? Was it because I grew up with everyone around me telling me god is real and the Bible is truth? Or did I have all the information needed to make an informed decision? I learned that almost universally people believe what the culture around them believes. Which means if you are born here your parents teach you to be Christian, had you been born in Saudi Arabia you’d be muslim, India – Hindu, China – non religious. So I asked myself why would god segregate himself from everyone who isn’t born in a given area? Then I actually read the atrocious book that is the Bible without using a religious bias. That is the only way to examine your faith if you are searching for truth. You have to look at your faith the same way you do Islam or Buddhism. Like an outsider. Have you REALLY read the bible? I don’t see how you can make it past the book of Leviticus without going “THIS is the god I’m bowing to?” You can’t arbitrarily hand out attributes like merciful, loving, benevolent, caring, omnipotent, etc. without a display of those attributes. It’s necessary that one be those things. The god of the bible (and the world we see today) is brutal, jealous, petty, misogynistic, and schizophrenic. As a woman how do you stomach the treatment of women in the bible? You can’t argue it was just custom. These were god’s words to the people about how to treat them. I encourage you to REALLY read through Genesis to Leviticus and examine the treatment of women. Ask yourself if you were treated that way would it be acceptable? …… I also studied the origins of the bible. When was it written? Who wrote it? *Here’s a hint that’s a trick question. Who decided what was included? How? What were the politics involved in this process? Is there reason to question it? Are there discrepancies in the gospels? Could any of the books be forgeries? Is there anything that they say happened that we know couldn’t have happened? (Such as eclipses for hours at a time for example) Are there cultural and sociological explanations for their acceptance of miracles? Is there reason to think they would have questioned the astounding claims made here? There’s a mountain of issues with Christianity and I’m skimming the surface. Just as you are encouraging us to search the truth I ask you to do the same. I don’t belittle anyone of faith or try to take their hope. However, when others use their faith to judge others or to disparage others it’s a problem Mr. Robinson’s article is full of false characterization and insinuations he has no way of backing up. He’s either purposely being misleading or is sorely misinformed. He offers things up as fact that most definitely are not fact. While Mr. Rafferty-Pepperdine may lack a bit of tact his points were on the money as well. A hand wave and a scoff is not a sufficient dismissal because you didn’t like his tone. I apologize for cutting this off here but I’ve already given this more time and energy than I have to devote to it. Take care.
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KT, I can certainly appreciate all of the observations that you have made in your well thought out comments. You must understand that the conclusions which you have made, are not all supported by all the evidence. When we listen to specific groups of people who have a predisposition to present a particular point, we only get their view. There are many additional scholars and well qualified experts who will dispute and impeach the conclusions of the people and their statements, you mentioned in your post.
In order to accept what you have stated regarding evidence, then you would have to believe that many millions of other intelligent men and women, who have done the proper work of examining facts and have come to the opposite conclusions that you have come to, are not very intelligent.
I would suggest to you that perhaps there is a lot more evidence and research that is required to properly arrive at a conclusion that God does not exist, than what you have already done.
I began life with no religious training, and had no knowledge of the Bible, God, or who Jesus is. It took me many, many years of serious research, looking at all sides of the issue, before I was finally convinced that the Bible is true, that Jesus is a genuine person of antiquity, and that the testimony of the men who described his life, death, and resurrection, are honest and accurate accounts of what actually took place.
I read all of your comments and there is not a single point that you have made that could not adequately be explained sufficiently to overcome your objections or misunderstandings.
If you are inclined to continue a true and honest search then you should have no problem doing so. If you have made up your mind, then the possibility of receiving any new and credible evidence, will be impossible for you.
I sincerely hope your quest for knowledge and truth is not over.
Thank you for taking the time to write your observations and feelings here on my web site. You are welcome here at any time.
Rob
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I am talking about non believers…. They need to find God. In detail their is proof of Jesus. Even in their stupid Science church crap. Don’t believe in it…never have. We are a family of Baptist. So when it’s all over…tell Him he doesn’t exist when you stand before Him. Unless forgiven…we won’t be seeing these folks in Heaven, may Jesus and God forgive them.
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Science is not a church. It is the means to know the world we live in. I suppose when I die if there is a God I will apologize, let him know that I didn’t know He really existed.
In that case, I better be prepared to ask forgiveness from the other Gods this world has been introduced to. What if your God is wrong but Zeus is? Thor? What then?
This is Pascal’s wager.
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This is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Amen, Mr. Robinson! AMEN!!
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Another 3 bites the dust…and I am not talking about Mr. Robin Williams….
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Rob Robinson
“It was not depression that caused Robin to take his own life—it was despair over living the life he had chosen.”
“The atheists doctrine of “no God,” leaves a person with the kind of utter despair and hopelessness that led Robin Williams to end his own life. In Robin’s mind, it would be better to die—rather than continue another day in despair. Those who ignore God and pretend that He is not real—find no adequate substitution.”
I don’t even know where to begin tearing this apart.
I don’t know how you make any kind of living passing yourself off as knowledgeable about anything, much less a hypothetical, intangible topic like god.
The empty claim of Robin killing himself because he got rich and famous and it caused despair is ridiculous tripe. He had no love of money. Robin Williams’ true love was giving joy and laughter to millions. If your stupid claim had any warrant to it, wealthy people like the Koch brothers and every televangelist on Earth would’ve offed themselves years ago.
This shitty article only goes to show just how small your knowledge of mental illness, and indeed any kind of science, really is.
Atheists do not need a “substitution” for God. Life is not empty without the childish falsehood and fairytales. Life has so much to enjoy and love without needing to compulsively give empty praise to some make-believe father figure. Atheists are not missing anything. It’s the crazy believers who insist on carrying around something extra and useless from their childhood.
The truly sad thing is you actually believe what you wrote. Which means you confirm that believers everywhere truly feel that if they realized there is no god…that they would be suddenly wracked with despair and start hurling themselves off cliffs or shooting themselves. This ridiculous idea is obviously false.
Robin Williams, like many other people (of fame or NOT), committed suicide because he had a mental problem that, while helping him become a creative genius and humanitarian, it also caused him to feel times of overwhelming pain and agony over his emotions and feelings. This is biology, another science which completely eludes you. He was not despaired because he didn’t have Jesus. I would say the fact that you even believe something like that is laughable, but you are already a Christian, so I assume you believe many less credible things than that.
And frankly, the fact that you would write this shit in your article shows just how little you understand humanity.
Your god doesn’t exist. Robin Williams did.
And of the two, he deserved much more respect and praise.
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Pepperdine
Why do you need to fill your comments with so much hate and insults ? It seems to show whats in your heart
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I have a “hatred” of ignorance and pushing of lies on people and arrogantly calling it fact. Especially when it is at the expense of a great person like Robin Williams.
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There’s something wrong with you PepperTree.
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Go read the comments again. I don’t even know where to begin with all the lies, false characterization, and subterfuge that is in this article….. Wow…..
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