There are many Youtube channels promoted by atheists. The goal is often to impugn the name of Christ, and malign those who love God and His word. A majority of these atheists who host Youtube channels have no ability to impeach anything related to actual evidence, but frequently invite atheist scholars to purvey their lies on these channels.
Shannon Q, also known as “Gigantic wild-eyed a**hole” on Twitter, recently invited atheist Hebrew scholar, Joel Baden, to her Youtube channel. I happened upon this video as a result of Shannon’s posts at her Twitter feed, and listened to Baden’s presentation on the “Documentary Hypothesis,” at Shannon’s Youtube channel.
Baden’s explanation for why we find the first five books in the Hebrew Bible, was unusual. He stated that we don’t really know who wrote the first five books, but we do know it wasn’t Moses. Baden insisted that it was likely four unknown writers who sort of “squished” all the events of creation together in Genesis 1 and 2. Not exactly a scholarly explanation for how we came to receive the Torah.
- Impeaching Yale Professor Joel Baden And His Views On The Documentary Hypothesis
- Proving Moses Wrote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, From Historical Evidence
I was curious about Baden so I visited his Yale website where he is a professor of the Hebrew Bible. I listened to the first video from Baden on that site and was awestruck by what I heard and saw. This video can be seen at a companion essay I wrote at this website. You can see it here, and read my impeachment of Joel Baden’s conclusions on the Documentary Hypothesis.
This essay is an examination of Shanno Q and her motives for the Youtube channel she hosts. Today I received a few comments from Shannon in which she asserted that she invited guests like Baden “for educational purposes.”
This struck me as odd, as the video I watched where Shannon Q hosted Joel Baden, was light years from educational. The entire presentation was largely for entertainment, and there was not a single item of evidence presented by Baden that could come close to proving any part of the Documentary Hypothesis.
If you review Baden’s video presentation at This link, you will see that he gives his audience comedy, parody, sarcasm, and many of his opinions, but not a single item of scholarly evidence that proves any part of the Documentary Hypothesis.
Shannon Q insists that Baden’s opinions can be trusted, because he is a professor at Yale University, teaching the Hebrew Bible. One of the first principles I learned in obtaining my own education, is that a PhD, does not guarantee accuracy, or truth. In the case of atheist, agnostic, or progressive scholars, their cognitive bias, always taints their conclusions.
Whenever a person begins with the idea that God doesn’t exist, and the Bible is not His Word, it is impossible to make scholarly, accurate conclusions about God or the Bible. If you doubt this statement, listen to Baden’s video presentation and read my impeachment of his assertions. You will discover that an advanced degree has not helped Joel Baden arrive at accurate conclusions. All of his books and essays are filled with his opinions, but very little actual evidence. There is no evidence anywhere that Moses did not write the Torah. All of the conclusions made by Joel Baden are based primarily upon his opinions.
Shannon Q precipitates the deception of Joel Baden by inviting him to her Youtube channel and endorsing his conclusions that Moses is not the author of the first five books of the Bible. This assertion, made by atheists, is extremely serious. If we allow atheists to undermine and call into question the veracity of the first five books of the Bible, every subsequent book that follows, is also placed in peril. The first five books of the Bible are the foundation of the entire Bible. Fortunate for us who trust these texts, men like Baden have never been able to impeach Moses as the true author.
In my impeachment of Baden’s views on the Documentary Hypothesis, I present actual evidence that fully impeaches the Documentary Hypothesis, and Baden’s conclusions.
I told Shannon Q that her guest, Joel Baden, is wrong in his assertions, and my essay impeaches his statements. I told Shannon that if she disagrees that Baden is wrong, she could read the essay I wrote and place her own impeachment of my essay at the end of the evidence I present. Shannon told me “No.”
The following is the exchange I had with Shannon at her Twitter feed:
The reason that Shannon declined to make an attempt at impeaching the essay, is that she has no idea how to accomplish this. When I suggested that perhaps her motives were financial in nature, she promptly told me that she doesn’t receive any income of significance from her Youtube channel. Then she proceeded to show me a chart from Youtube that shows she had earned $9.967.17.
Shannon claims that the chart below is her “lifetime earnings,” from 2018, till March 14, 2022, yet the chart she posted indicates clearly, that the $9.967.17, was earned from December 24, 2021, till March 14, 2022. Even if she only recently MONETIZED her Youtube channel in December, Shannon is still being disingenuous when stating these are, “lifetime earnings,” over four years.
If monetization was approved in December, this is when her earning history began, not before. Youtube does not allow a channel to be monetized until specific requirements are met. If Shannon was only recently approved for monetization, she should have been honest and told us. By hiding this fact, she made it appear that she has only been able to earn $9,967.17 for the past four years. This is not true.
The chart below that Shannon provided, proves she is lying. In fact, the chart proves her earning only recently began, four months ago. This is her earning history: Four months at about $2,500 a month, for a total of $9,967.17. This is Shannon’s true earning history, four months, not four years, as she stated. The first three and one half years Shannon likely did not qualify for earnings, and therefore, don’t count in Shannon’s earning history.
Since Shannon has clearly not been honest about her real earning timeline, it is impossible to correctly determine the true facts. One thing is certain, Shannon did not tell us the truth. She earned nearly $10,000 in just four months. This is motive for anyone to produce videos on Youtube.
By any standard, $9.967.17, is a lot of money. Shannon said that money was NOT her motive for her atheist Youtube videos, yet she has MONETIZED her Youtube channel, for this exact purpose, to make money from videos that malign Christ. Notice this income is from December 24, to March 14. In just 4 months, Shannon was paid $9.967.17.
UPDATE, March 18, 11:14 am: Shannon has sent me a new chart that she alleges, proves here income from Youtube videos maligning Christ, are a “lifetime” statement. This chart is significantly different from the first chart Shannon gave me that shows her income from December 24, 2021 to March 14, 2022. I don’t know which chart is accurate or truthful. Giving Shannon the benefit of the doubt, I am posting the new chart Shannon gave me today, you can make up your own mind which chart is the truth.
These things being said, the issue from the beginning has always been the fact that Shannon Q, intentionally seeks to earn blood money from videos that malign and impugn Jesus.
Jesus’ purpose in leaving His Glory in heaven, giving up many of His rights as God, taking the body of a man, living a sinless life, proving He is God by His miracles, dying for the sins of the world, and being raised from the dead, was so that by this infinite act of love, Shannon could obtain eternal life.
Shannon’s response to Jesus’ love for her, has been to malign Him and the testimony about Him—bring critics of Jesus and the Bible onto her Youtube channel—for the purpose of making a mockery of Jesus and the great sacrifice He made for Shannon and the whole world.
Even more reprehensible, Shannon Monetized her Youtube channel so that she could earn money by mocking Jesus and impugning His name and work on the cross.
Shannon Will Continue Earning “Blood Money” From Her Mockery Of Jesus
I did not receive any statement from Shannon that she will no longer make videos that malign Jesus, or accept income from these videos. Shannon’s desire to continue producing videos that turn people away from Jesus and condemn them to a future judgement for their sins, is inexcusable.
It doesn’t really matter whether Shannon earned $10,000 in four months or in four years, the terrible sin of making these videos at all, is the true issue. Judas Iscariot betrayed the Son of God for 30 pieces of silver. Shannon has joined Judas in accepting payment for her betrayal of Jesus. In this, Shannon fully intends to continue earning blood money from the suffering and death of Jesus, and this is reprehensible.[A]
Shannon and her friends at Twitter, insist that I am making a lot of money for the sale of my books at Amazon. I state clearly at my website that I receive no compensation for any of my books.
“I write books so that I might make Jesus known to the world. None of my books or articles are written for profit. I do not receive compensation for any of my published works. My purpose in writing about Jesus is to make Him known and allow people the opportunity to receive reliable information that will assist them in their decision to trust Christ, as well as those who already know Jesus, to help them grow in their faith.
As with Paul, I want to tell people about Jesus, without the motivation for personal gain. Jesus said: ‘freely you have received, now freely give’.”
I have never received compensation for any of my published books
Shannon and her friends insist that I am lying because, they say, I charge for these books. Anyone who has published a book, understands that they cannot be placed at Amazon or any other venue where they are for sale, at no cost. Amazon charges fees to publish every book, and every time one of these books are downloaded, Amazon charges for the download. Any money earned from the sale of my books, above the publishing costs, are retained by the publisher, to be used to provide free Biblical materials to persons in over 180 countries. I have never received compensation for the sale of any of my books, my Youtube channel, or my website.
I have a book that is nearly 6,000 pages, “The Messianic Prophecy Bible,” that sells at Amazon for $7.99. Try to find any other Christian book for sale at $7.99, that is this large of a volume. I keep the price of all my books at the lowest published price possible, so that everyone can afford to read them and learn the truth about Jesus.
The Peril Of Atheists In Turning People Away From Jesus
Jesus took it very seriously, the people who work to cause others to lose their faith in Him. He spoke more about Hell in the four Gospels, than He did about heaven. He warned that it would be better that these persons had never been born, who lead others away from Him. There is a prison cell reserved for those who ruin the eternal life of others, that is beyond comprehension.
Shannon Q and Paulogia, are amongst the chief purveyors of lies and deception that is directed at turning people away from Christ. Many people have already passed into eternity without Jesus, because of the deception of Shannon Q and Paulogia.
Matthew 26:24: “For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago. But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him. It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!”
Matthew 18:6-7: “But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting.“
When Jesus recounted the story of the rich man, in Luke 16, who found himself in Hell, he described this place as a horror of suffering for those who end up there. The man in hell begged for a drop of cool water to soothe his tongue, and some relief from the torment of the flames. It is Jesus who tells us this story. Jesus intended His words as a warning for people who turn people away from Jesus and cause them to lose their eternal life.
I pray that Shannon Q and Paulogia, repent from their attempts at leading people away from Jesus. When He was here on earth, Jesus spoke of people who spend their lives bringing doubts to those trying to find God. He said that He will personally take vengeance against these persons and they will face a destiny beyond their ability to comprehend. The book of Hebrews recounts this warning:
Hebrews 10:29-3: “Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. For we know the one who said, “I will take revenge. I will pay them back.” He also said, “The LORD will judge his own people.” It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
God exists and He came to earth as Jesus to show us who God is, and reveal His desire to save us all, regardless how bad we have been. Shannon Q and Paulogia can find this forgiveness of sins for all the harm they have done to Jesus and those who have already lost their salvation due to the lies these two have told. If anyone will repent, Jesus will hear and forgive. We all pray that Shannon Q and Paulogia, turn from the evil they are committing.
NOTES:
[A] “Blood Money:” The money paid for the Messiah’s betrayal is called “blood money” (From: Matthew 27:6).(1) See the full text of “Betrayed by a Friend
The account written by Matthew records these astonishing details, exactly as Zechariah had predicted them. When Judas realizes that he has betrayed Jesus and has caused His death, he returns to the chief priests to return the thirty pieces of silver.
According to the law, money that had resulted from certain events—often referred to as blood money—could not be received into the temple treasury. The paying of a fee to Judas for the betrayal of Jesus, which caused His death, forbid the chief priests from receiving the money back from Judas that he had formerly been paid.
You shall not bring the wages of a harlot or the price of a dog to the house of the Lord your God for any vowed offering, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God.(2)
During this period of history, women did not have personal assets or the ability to earn money. Often when a woman had made a vow to the Lord, her only means to obtain resources to pay these vows was through prostitution.(3) The priests were forbidden from receiving money that was earned by these methods. The intent was to discourage women from conducting themselves in this manner. This law was further expanded to exclude money that resulted from the death or injury of an individual.(4)
Although the priests were forbidden from accepting money from the hands of those who had been paid to bring a criminal to justice, a provision in the traditions of the elders allowed certain funds to be received into the temple treasury for the purpose of prepaying the burial expenses of an indigent who had died while in Jerusalem. On many occasions, the temple treasury was forced to provide a place of burial for a foreigner or the poor. According to a provision in Jewish law, the chief priests could take the money Judas threw into the Temple and use it to purchase a parcel of land where the destitute could be laid to rest.
(1) “Blood Money.” 1911 Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1911 ed.). Encyclopaedia Britannica. pp. 29–volumes. ASIN B0006P7UY
(2) Deuteronomy 23:18
(3) It should be noted that women not possessing assets or money of their own was strictly a cultural bias of this period of history, not a law prescribed by the Bible or God. When Jesus arrived on the earth He elevated woman to a place of equality with man
(4) Ibid. “Blood Money.” 1911 Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1911 ed.). Encyclopaedia Britannica. pp. 29–volumes. ASIN B0006P7UY
Categories: Agnostics and Skeptics, Atheists, Causing Division in Jesus Church, Do not imitate evil, Hell is not God's will for you, How Salvation Occurs, Joel Baden, Leading People to Jesus, Living For Jesus, Messianic Prophecies, Pretend Believers, Religion vs. Relationship, Robert Clifton Robinson, Salvation is a free gift, Salvation through Jesus, Speaking out against sin, The Condition of the Heart, The Historical Jesus, The Historical Jesus, The Importance of the Bible, The Resurrection, The Wrath of God, Unpardonable Sin, We must repent, We must see our need, What happens after death?, Why evil exists
Robert Clifton Robinson 
Yeah, people like Baden and Bowen do have legitimate PhD’s but this Shannon person probably goes around claiming to debate christians and writing long books that address nothing the topic is supposed to be addressing and probably never even read Baden’s many books and Bowen’s books on slavery or learning Sumerian. Oh wait! That sounds like I am describing you. My bad and apologies to class people like Shannon, Baden and Bowen. I am a bit tired as I read _The Oxford Handbook of the Pentateuch_ which is like your book – almost 600 pages long! I read all his other books. All he does probably is just requote Wellhausen. ta ta for now.
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The Documentary Hypothesis is NOT a minority position and has NOT been debunked. The Documentary Hypothesis is still supported by scholars (especially in North American and Israel) and modern scholars have presented new arguments to defend it. In the late 20th century, there arose a view (mostly from European scholars) where the Elohist(“E”) source is considered just a variation of the Yahwist(“J”) source and the Priestly(“P”) source is just an expansion and revision to the J source. Other scholars are revisiting the Supplementary Hypothesis and Fragmentary Hypothesis from previous centuries. In his “Has European Scholarship Abandoned the Documentary Hypothesis?”, Konrad Schmid writes “The newer contributions to Pentateuchal research from Europe do not aim at overthrowing the Documentary Hypothesis rather, they strive to understand the composition of the Pentateuch in the most appropriate terms, which… includes ‘documentary’ elements as well.” Regardless, almost all contemporary biblical scholars believe the Pentateuch was not written by a single author but rather is a compilation of different sources. You need to read more than ax-grinding apologists like Norman Geisler who just offer misinformation to support their evangelical agenda.
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Floyd, while I appreciate your candor and effort to write an argument, you did not provide an argument.
1. You provided me no evidence that actually proves the Documentary Hypothesis. You simply added your own comments and opinions to the other comments, opinions, conjecture and speculation of atheist scholars who assert this hypothesis.
2. There has never been any evidence to prove the Documentary Hypothesis. If you have actual evidence, then I would like to see it, as no scholar, to date, has provided anything past their opinions.
3. The Documentary Hypothesis has been abandoned by conservative scholars, who are the real majority. If you disagree and wish to submit a list of the scholars who posit this hypothesis, I would like to see it.
4. The Primary source which proves that Moses wrote the Torah, is from actual manuscript evidence. This is why it is the Primary source. The Secondary Sources and the Documentary Hypothesis are based on faulty ideas that Moses could not have written the Torah, because there was no alphabet or writing system in 1,450 B.C. This has been impeached by the archeological discovery of an actual Semitic writing system in 1,450. I documented this in the following essay.
Proving The Exodus Happened, And Moses Wrote The Pentateuch
5. You have made a common error by using the term: “almost all contemporary biblical scholars believe the Pentateuch was not written by a single author.” It has never been a majority who assert this posit, but a minority of atheist scholars who don’t believe God exists, or the Bible is true. Not exactly a reliable representation of truth.
The key word here is “contemporary.” While it is true that contemporary, atheist scholars assert the Documentary and Second Source ideas to try and prove Moses did not write the Torah, there is about 1700 years of scholarly work before these contemporary scholars, who fully impeach these new, unprovable, contemporary assertions.
Rob
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Why not be honest and admit that no one, neither you nor I nor anyone else knows who wrote the OT or the NT (mostly). Most claims I’ve read are just that, assertions that have no evidence behind them; i.e., opinions without any solid basis.
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Raymond, we do know; have known, for over 3,150 years.
https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2022/06/03/the-historicity-of-moses/
https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/were-the-gospels-written-by-eyewitnesses/
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No, that is incorrect. There is no proof existing that shows who wrote the OT.
Only assumptions.
Even there are no original documents in existence that are from the time as it is claimed that Moses lived.
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Incorrect. We have extensive extant manuscript evidence, as early as 2,700 years ago. This is the Primary Source to prove the entire Old Testament is true and reliable.
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1. The best evidence we have supporting the position that Moses didn’t write the entire Pentateuch is the description of his death and burial in the last chapter of Deuteronomy.
2. The more critical discoveries arise from the widespread presence of contradictions and inconsistencies contained within repetitions of stories, such as the creation and flood. A single author would have known better than to write a certain passage, only to contradict it a few sentences later.
3. The inclusion of city names and tribes yet to exist at the time of Moses’ death, approximately 1450 BCE, is equally devastating to the traditional Mosaic authorship claim. Genesis 11:31 says that the Chaldees lived in the city of Ur during the life of Abraham, but historical records tell us that the Chaldees didn’t even exist as a tribe until well after Moses was dead. In addition, they didn’t become a prominent enough group to occupy a city until the sixth century BCE.
4. Genesis 14:14 mentions the city of Dan, but the city didn’t acquire this name until it was seized one thousand years later via conquest. Genesis 37:25 mentions traders with spicery, balm, and myrrh, but these weren’t the primary trade products of the region until the eighth century BCE. Isaac visits King Abimelech of Gerar in Genesis 26:1, but Gerar didn’t exist until after Isaac’s death and wouldn’t have been powerful enough to “require a King until the eighth century BCE. Genesis 36:31 says that there were “kings that reigned in the land of Edom,” but there’s no extrabiblical record of Kings in Edom until the eighth century BCE. Exodus 13:17 details Moses’ apprehension toward entering the land of the Philistines in Canaan, but there’s zero evidence that indicates the Philistines occupied Canaan until the thirteenth century BCE. In addition, they couldn’t have sufficiently organized in threatening numbers until a few hundred years later.
5. Moses references Palestine in Exodus 15:14, the only known mention of that name for hundreds of years. In Deuteronomy 3:11, Moses also mentions the city of Rabbath and Og’s location within the city, but no one outside of Rabbath could have held this information until it was conquered hundreds of years later. Jacob is called a wandering Aramean in Deuteronomy 26:5, but the Arameans didn’t have contact with the Israelites until the ninth century BCE. Some particular names mentioned in Genesis 14 and 25 (Chedorlaomer, Kadesh, Sheba, Tema, Nebaioth, and Adbeel) are consistent with names of people recorded by the Assyrians as living during the sixth through eighth centuries BCE, not a thousand years prior. The writers never provide the names of Egyptian Pharaohs even though Moses would have readily known this bit of information.
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I sincerely hope that the Deuteronomy 34 assertion is not your primary argument. The answer to this alleged difficulty is given to us in Deuteronomy 32:
In Deuteronomy 32:48-50, God told Moses he was going to die, to prepare himself. Moses writes his own obituary before he dies, found in Deuteronomy 34:1-5.
It’s no mystery how Moses was able to write about his own death. He recorded it before he died.
I see only your opinions and the regurgitation of statements made by other atheists and atheist scholars.
There is widespread evidence from all over the world that a global flood took place. This is well known but often ignored evidence by atheists. See the following documentary which fully proves that Moses told the truth about a Global flood during the days of Noah:
The answer is really very simple. The ancient Hebrew scholars are clear that God dictated the texts of Genesis to Moshe during the 40 days and nights he was on Sinai.
“Avot, the tractate of Mishnah usually translated as Sayings (or Ethics) of the Fathers, begins, “Moshe received the Torah from Sinai and transmitted it to Yehoshua, Yehoshua to the Elders, the Elders to the Prophets, and the Prophets transmitted it to the Men of the Great Assembly.” Simply put, this is the traditional view of the creation of the Torah, that it was dictated to Moshe by God on Mount Sinai over the forty days and nights that he spent there, communing with the Almighty. Rabbi Judah David Eisenstein writes, “The traditional belief is that [the Five Books of Moses] were all written by Moshe under the inspiration of God, and that every statement in the Masoretic text is, therefore, to be considered of divine origin, and hence absolutely true.” (For a brief discussion of the Masoretic text and men who produced it, see “Men of Tradition,” page 126.) ~Robinson, George. Essential Torah (p. 97). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group.
This is why the ancient Hebrews so revered Moses that by the first century, the religious leaders of Israel called themselves, “the disciples of Moses?”
John 9:28: “Then the Jewish leaders cursed Jesus and said, “You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses!”
God spoke directly to Moses, as to no other man. The ancient Hebrew scholars knew this, and wrote about it in the first century. As God revealed to Jeremiah the 70 year captivity at Babylon for the Jews, and Daniel was told the exact day the Messiah would arrive at Jerusalem, God dictated the texts of the Torah to Moses.
This was the consensus of Hebrew scholars in the first century, and they had no doubts about Moses’ authorship of the Torah. How is it that atheist scholars in the twenty-first century think they know more about authorship than scholars of the first century. The do not!
The majority of your arguments are based upon one supposition, Moses could not have know the things he wrote in Genesis. This assertion is not true.
Moses could have received direct revelation from God, describing all the events that took place from the beginning. We find in the Bible that God often communicates revelation of events before they happen, to the prophets. Moses was a prophet and it is certain that God told him all that he wrote, as I detailed in your former question and my answer in number 3.
God told Isaiah and Jeremiah the events that would take place concerning the nation of Israel and the Jews. Jeremiah knew that the Jews would be taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar, and remain there for 70 years. Daniel read Jeremiah prophecy of his people in Chapter 9 of his books, and began to pray for his nation and people. In response, God told Daniel the exact day that Jesus would arrive at Jerusalem and be proclaimed as the Messiah, promised in Genesis 3:15, and Deuteronomy 18:15.
The entire history of the Jews and the Hebrew scriptures are filled with examples of God telling the writers in advance, what was going to happen.
In John chapter 14, Jesus told the men whom He called to be “His witnesses,” that when He returned to heaven He would send the Holy Spirit, who would “bring to your remembrance all things concerning me.”
The ability of God to dictate future events is well documented throughout the entire Bible.
All of the difficulties you experience in understanding how Moses could write about people, places, and events that did not happen for another 300 years, are answered by this revelation of these facts, dictated to Moses, and him recording them in the Torah.
Record Keeping”
There is significant evidence in the historical record that the Jew were masters at keeping records of past events and being able to recount them with great precision.
The Mishna
About 200 A.D., Rabbi Judah Hansi completed the fence laws and various other teachings and combined them into what we know today as the Mishna.1 Later, a commentary on the multitude of these laws was added, called the Gemara. When all of these documents are combined together, they are called the Talmud. The Talmud was the final authority for every law and the correct interpretation of these laws.
The Pharisees taught that when God gave Moses the law on Mount Sinai, He gave him two laws: the written law called the Laws of Moses, as recorded in the Old Testament; and the secret law, also called “the oral law.” Moses passed these oral traditions down to the elders of Israel vocally, as they were prohibited from writing them. These secret laws would not be revealed until a need arose, at the proper time; this is according to the Mishna.2
Moses received the oral law from God on Mount Sinai and delivered it to Joshua, who delivered it to the elders of Israel, followed by the Judges. The Judges gave these oral traditions to the Prophets, and the Prophets delivered them to the sopherim of Ezra’s day.3
By the time Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, the traditions of the elders had developed the same authority as the Word of God. This is how the traditions of men, over time, came to outweigh and overrule the Words of God.
1 Tractate Shabbat
2 All of this information is available in the Tractate Avot, Tractate Berachot, Tractate Sanhedrin, Tractate Yevamot and Tractate Eruvin.
3 Tractate Avot 10:1
In the earliest form of the oral traditions of the scriptures, scholars committed the entire body of God’s word to memory. When a particular passage was recited, it would remind the listener of several other places in the scriptures where a similar passage spoke or illustrated a comparable principle.
In the Hebrew oral tradition, teachers memorized entire books by simply listening to them as they were spoken over and over. Students were taught to memorize everything that their teachers said or taught. When accounts of what God had said were being revealed, students memorized these accounts word for word.
These students were later tested for accuracy by recounting what they had learned, back to their teachers. In this early world, before the distribution of books, this was considered the greatest and most important part of their life as followers of God.
Because of their high regard for the oral tradition used by those who memorized the words of God, we have great confidence today that what is written in the Old Testament scriptures are absolutely reliable and are an accurate account of the true words of God.
~Rediscovering the Traditions of Israel by Douglas A. Knight 1973. Semeia (1976a), The Hebrew Bible and Its Modern Interpreters (1984) An encyclopedia on oral tradition by Robert E. Coote in 1976 Leander E. Keck, “Oral Traditional Literature and the Gospels: The Seminar” (1978). Werner Kelber’s work (1979, 1983) Güttgemanns (1979, original German 1971).
Interesting, your comments posted here as arguments, are not your own. The arguments you posted in this reply to me are from the book: “Biblical Nonsense,” by Jason Long. It is disappointing that you have relied upon the false claims of others, rather than conduct your own research in making an argument. In any event, this assertion is easily impeached.
1. Moses references Palestine in Exodus 15:14, the only known mention of that name for hundreds of years.
You are confusing terms: Moses is not describing the later term, “Palestine,” but the earlier inhabitants of Palestina, the Philistines. It was not until later that the land was referred to as “Palestine.” The Hebrew word is Phĕlâsheth, of which the nearest English equivalent would be “Philistia.”
2. In Deuteronomy 3:11, Moses also mentions the city of Rabbath and Og’s location within the city, but no one outside of Rabbath could have held this information until it was conquered hundreds of years later.
You are incorrect: The text of Deuteronomy 3:11 states: “For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit.”
2 Samuel 12:26 confirms that Moses was correct: “Now Joab fought against Rabbah of the people of Ammon, and took the royal city.”
Also: Jeremiah 49:2: confirms Moses: “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “That I will cause to be heard an alarm of war In Rabbah of the Ammonites…”
3. Jacob is called a wandering Aramean in Deuteronomy 26:5, but the Arameans didn’t have contact with the Israelites until the ninth century BCE
Deuteronomy 26:5 “And you shall answer and say before the LORD your God: ‘My father was a Syrian, about to perish, and he went down to Egypt and dwelt there, few in number; and there he became a nation, great, mighty, and populous.
The text doesn’t say that the Israelites had contact with the Syrians; it says “my father was a syrian who went down to Egypt. You have misread the texts.
4. Some particular names mentioned in Genesis 14 and 25 (Chedorlaomer, Kadesh, Sheba, Tema, Nebaioth, and Adbeel) are consistent with names of people recorded by the Assyrians as living during the sixth through eighth centuries BCE, not a thousand years prior.
Your argument is a fabrication made by Jason Long in his book, but not correct. There is no evidence to support this assertion. The descriptions of Genesis 14 and 25, describing Chedorlaomer, Kadesh, Sheba, Tema, Nebaioth, and Adbeel are born by proven archeological evidence.
American linguist and Biblical Scholar, R.D. Wilson, who was fluent in 45 ancient languages and dialects and had memorized the entire Old Testament in Hebrew. Dr. Wilson was able to recite, from memory, every word of the Hebrew scriptures without missing a syllable.
Dr.Wilson demonstrated that the secular accounts of 29 ancient kings from 10 different nations were inaccurate. At the same time, he also firmly established that the names of these kings, as they are recorded in the Old Testament scriptures, matched the artifacts of Archeology empirically.1
Today those who have criticized the Bible for being inaccurate have eaten their own words. The secular record has been proven inaccurate by discoveries of modern archeology, while the Biblical descriptions of archeological artifacts have been proven true.2
1 “A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament,” by R. D. Wilson, “Is Higher Criticism Scholarly,” and “Which Bible,” by David Otis Fuller, who studied under Dr. Wilson at Princeton Theological Seminary.
2 An interesting discovery in 1910 by Sir William Ramsey, debunked the secular record of Cicero of the Romans who described Iconium as being in Lycaonia. Luke describes Lystra and Derbe as being in Lycaonia. Acts 14:6 they became aware of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the surrounding region.
5. The writers never provide the names of Egyptian Pharaohs even though Moses would have readily known this bit of information.
This is a false assumption. The names of Egyptian Pharaohs was not the subject of the Torah. It was the narrative of God’s power and faithfulness to bring His people out of slavery in Egypt and into the land He promised. This is a common error amongst critics; that the Bible should provide information that critics think is important, while ignoring the narrative that God is actually telling us:
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“Whenever a person begins with the idea that God doesn’t exist, and the Bible is not His Word, it is impossible to make scholarly, accurate conclusions about God or the Bible.”
Yeah, the term you’re looking for is “confirmation bias” and it’s you who suffer from it. You prove this a little later again by replying to a comment with : “Exactly how someone who doesn’t believe God exists, or that the Bible is true, can be a Biblical scholar, is the real issue. The Bible makes it clear that a prerequisite to being a Biblical scholar, is a firm belief in the God who claims to be the source for the Bible, and that the texts in the Bible are all true.
The Bible states that only those who sincerely turn from their sins, and determine to trust is Christ for all of their life, are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is only by the Holy Spirit residing within a true believer, that they can really understand the depth of wisdom and knowledge that the Bible reveals.
It is for this reason that no atheist or non-believer can ever be a Biblical scholar. This is not my opinion, it is what Jesus said…”
There’s a whole lot of unsubstantiated claims in this bit that you admit your main acceptance is from the fact your holy text claims it.
And that’s the same claim of many religions.
While there are always stances taken in science that are assumed, they can only assumed if there’s a substantial block of knowledge behind it, you don’t get to assume unsubstantiated basic claims that are the key point to your research. You’re busy trying to establish the correctness of the Bible, saying that it’s accurate because it says it is accurate and you have to believe that before you can question the accuracy is not only circular reasoning but also, somehow a dead end. If you believed it was accurate why would you question the accuracy? You very much can question the accuracy of a statement or claim without believing the claim, that’s how most things operate. Why do you think the Bible should get a free pass?
As for the money thing, what is your actual claim? That being paid to do something is evil or duplicitous? That somehow your point is more valid because it is free? What are you trying to achieve by pointing out Shannon gets paid for something? Priests and churches get paid, does this invalidate their message? As do teachers, lecturers, professors and doctors.
Honestly you just sound jealous that she’s making money disproving a claim you happen to hold dear.
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Your answer to the referenced post is inadequate. I don’t read anywhere that you placed any evidence to disprove any of the statements I made in my post. It is customary when seeking to refute something that one disagrees with concerning the Bible, that you come with evidence to overturn what has been said.
I don’t find anything in your comments that meets this burden.
You make many statements, but never ask a question or seek clarification for what was stated. These are signs that a person is not interested in learning or discussing anything, only a desire to argue and scoff at what has been presented. In most cases your comments would not have been approved, and in fact, even the software at this website flagged your response as “spam.
This was a very intuitive definition for your words, and made by a machine.
The texts of the Bible have what is known in modern forensics as, “self proving texts.” This defines the historical texts within the 66 books of the Bible as testable by forensics, comparing scripture with scripture, to determine veracity.
For example, Joel Baden states that Moses is not the author of the Torah. He doesn’t present any evidence to prove this, he was taught this when a student at university, and he simply regurgitates this error in his own publications.
The problem with asserting Moses didn’t exist, or didn’t write the first five books, is that we can examine other extant texts of the Bible and discover that there are 720 citations for Moses in the Old Testament.
The writers of the New Testament cite Moses as the writer of the Torah, on 96 occasions. It is not possible that all of these different writers, at different periods of history, wrote about the same person, and they are all wrong. No, it is Joel Baden who has made the error of ignoring the actual texts of the 66 books of the Bible. They prove he is wrong.
Remember that the Bible was not written as a single book, but a compilation of texts that were assembled together as one.
The 66 books, written by 40 authors, over a 1,450 year period of history, agree that Moses wrote the Torah. This impeaches Baden efficiently.
These 720 Old Testament texts that cite Moses, 96 New Testament texts, confirm that Moses is the author, and Joel Baden is incapable in his efforts to discern these texts. The reason is obvious, though likely unstated by Baden; he is an atheist who doesn’t believe the Bible is true, or that God exists. This is the epitome of “Confirmation Bias,” not the correct definition you misapplied to the texts I stated.
It would be helpful if you came to a debate equipped with the ability to process, even your own thoughts correctly.
There is no other “religion,” that has the body of extant manuscript evidence describing real persons and events, that the Bible possess. As an atheist, you have read that there is no difference between Christianity, and all other religions, and you accepted this. It is, however, incorrect.
1. There has never been any other human being who lived a sinless life, as testified by the people who knew Jesus best and walked with Him every day for nearly four years. Jesus is the only man who has ever lived His entire life, without committing a single sin. This is the testimony of the men who knew Jesus, and His own statement, as recorded in the narratives of the New Testament. No other religion has a sinless Savior. Only a sinless Savior can save all other sinners. This fact of Jesus and singular amongst all other religions, sets Jesus apart as uniquely qualified to die for the sins of the world.
2. There is no record that the Eternal God ever came to earth and took the body of a man, for the sole purpose of proving to us that God exists, and to give His life as a payment for all the sins of every person, except in the arrival of Jesus to earth.
3. There is no eyewitness testimony of the magnitude presented to us by the men who wrote the 27 letters of the New Testament. In these texts these men and women who saw and heard Jesus, state clearly, they saw Jesus with their own eyes, heard Him, and they know they are telling the truth.
4. These eyewitnesses state that Jesus claimed to be God on numerous occasions, and then performed every miracle possible to prove that He was God. No other religion has ever presented a person like Jesus, with such a large body of extant manuscript evidence to prove the narratives presented.
5. These eyewitnesses said, while in the course of learning who Jesus was, that He had been fulfilling all of the 400 Messianic Prophecies written in the Old Testament that describe the coming Messiah predicted by Moses and all the prophets. While seeing Jesus fulfill these prophecies, these men realized that Jesus was doing this on purpose to prove He is God and Messiah.
6. These eyewitnesses state that they saw Jesus be arrested, falsely accused of crimes He didn’t commit, scourged till his flesh hung like ribbons on His body, crucified, died, and then risen from the dead three days later. There has never been any other religion that presented the world with these facts, these witnesses, this magnitude of extant manuscript evidence.
There could be placed here, hundreds of additional evidentiary, historical facts. For the sake of brevity, I will limit my response here.
I have made no assumptions in any of my publications. I am simply reporting to you what the evidence that exists, proves. The New Testament presents us with the largest surviving manuscript evidence to prove the words, deeds, and results of one life, of any event in antiquity. You ignore this evidence as all atheists do, and assume that it is all a fairy tale, when it is not.
If you simply read one of my books on “New Testament Apologetics,” there are 600 pages of evidence for you to peruse, that prove the testimony about Jesus in the New Testament is the absolute truth.
There is no “money thing.” I agree that anyone has the right to earn an honest living. I have no problem with a person making videos, selling books, or any other legal method of providing income for themselves and their families. In the case of Shannon, she is earning blood money off the suffering and sacrifice of Jesus life and death. Jesus gave His life for Shannon and she repays Him by inviting liars like Joel Baden to spread deceit to many thousands of unsuspecting people who don’t know he is lying.
Shannon sees nothing wrong with this because she is an atheist who doesn’t believe Jesus is real, or the things written about Him are true. The problem is, they are all true and she will face a judgement from Christ that she is not prepared for, or can possibly imagine. She should cease this evil, repent from her sins, and trust Christ before it is too late.
As far as myself; the Bible is clear that a person is entitled to earn a living from teaching the word of God to others. Jesus stated this, as did Paul. I have chosen to not make a living from my publications, as Paul did himself, so that no one can say that I write, publish, and teach the Bible for profit.
Perhaps some day I will decide to accept some compensation, but for the present time, I will not.
Your comments are very disappointing and they are the primary reason that I write the books and essays I publish. Atheists are the least educated persons on the planet concerning the Bible. They literally know nothing about what the Bible really states or means.
I write to provide honest people with the evidence they need to believe the testimony about Jesus is true, trust in Him for their salvation, and receive eternal life.
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So to sum up why you say these people are lying is because your book says a thing. Any other lines of evidence, other than this book, to go with that?
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Your question is a little vague, so I am not sure what you are describing. I will make an attempt at what it seems you are asking.
The books that I write and publish, are evidentiary. They are designed to impeach the primary assertions that atheists make today concerning the New Testament narratives of Jesus. This is also true for books I write concerning the Old Testament scriptures.
Atheists make many false and unprovable claims today, that are not supported by evidence. These men and women claim to be scholars and have achieved academic degrees that convey a status of “scholar.” The problem is that a PhD, does not mean that a person will tell the truth, or that they will provide you will actual evidence to prove what they assert.
My role is to expose their lies and demonstrate that there is no evidence to prove what these atheist, agnostic, and progressive scholars are claiming, is true. My books present this evidence and can be used to impeach these false claims made by critical scholars.
It is important to understand that the scholars I am speaking of are not a majority. They consist of a minority of men and women who do not believe God exists, or don’t know if He exists; don’t believe the Bible is true, or don’t believe that large parts of the Bible is true; don’t believe that the New Testament narratives about Jesus are true.
Exactly how someone who doesn’t believe God exists, or that the Bible is true, can be a Biblical scholar, is the real issue. The Bible makes it clear that a prerequisite to being a Biblical scholar, is a firm belief in the God who claims to be the source for the Bible, and that the texts in the Bible are all true.
The Bible states that only those who sincerely turn from their sins, and determine to trust is Christ for all of their life, are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is only by the Holy Spirit residing within a true believer, that they can really understand the depth of wisdom and knowledge that the Bible reveals.
It is for this reason that no atheist or non-believer can ever be a Biblical scholar. This is not my opinion, it is what Jesus said, Paul said, what the body of scriptures in the Bible, teach.
The reason that atheists and non-believers seek to obtain an advanced degree, is to be seen as an expert who can make conclusions about the Bible and be found credible. The problem is that I have yet to see, in my 47 years of scholarship, any atheist who can really understand the Bible, and make correct conclusions.
The reason that atheists seek to obtain a Phd, in my opinion, is to be effective weapons to refute the Bible and prevent people from trusting in the God of the Bible.
The subject of the essay you posted your question at, deals with a Yale University Professor, Joel Baden, who is by all accounts, an atheist. He asserts that Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible, as the entire Bible states he did. Baden says he knows better: Moses is not the author, four other unknown writers wrote the first five books.
I wrote an in-depth essay that impeaches Baden, with substantial evidence.
So my answer to your question is the the difference between myself and the atheists I am seeking to refute, is that they provide no evidence to prove what they are saying; I provide substantial evidence.
Blessings,
Rob
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You have a lot of unnecessary commas here that disrupt the flow of your prose.
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Thank you, I will make these corrections.
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Dear Mr. Robinson:
Point #1) I am absolutely blessed by the Grace of God to have discovered you and your
ministry. Hands down, man, you are one of the very few spiritually and mentally alive guys I know in this world. Please take that seriously and be proud of it.
Point #2) Baden and his ilk use an age-old gimmick of social manipulation. I have had 87 college professors in my time and many use gestures and humor to appeal to “in-crowd” mentality. Their goal is to have the students buy into their charisma as a “cool guy” and sell the impression of being the cat’s meow authority on the subject, new school of thought, etc., and that his “take” on things is the correct one. They use peer pressure to make you feel that you should want to be “one of the boys” and therefore agree with him because everyone else is. I had one master’s level prof actually sing a Beatles song as emphasis to the chapter on Spiritual Theory of Counseling. I almost puked. Most of the students were less than half my age and didn’t know better. I raised my hand and indicated that the song she just sang (with the class in reverential awe of a prof actually singing) was a perversion of a Christian song changed to a Bangladesh guru song admittedly by the Beatles themselves. You could have cut the air with a knife when I said that. How dare I bust her bubble!!
College is a joke and I feel bad for these kids.
Point #3) In one of your essays, you posted a picture/drawing of Christ when you were advertising Prophecies of the Messiah. You featured a really handsome, strong, masculine charismatic portrait of Jesus. I have no doubt that Jesus’ life was made very difficult by having to fend off all those women asking Him for a date. This led me to research the psycho-physiological underpinnings of charisma and this lead to the Law of Attraction very much researched in earnest by scholars. One rather sophisticated essay (I suspect secular) referred to the fact that the universe is replete with various wavelengths of energy which harmonize and synergistically enhance enervation and functionality of the particles composing the living organism. Taken higher in wavelength, we attain brainwaves which are energy, and higher up in cognitive thought, we approach enlightenment which the author ascribes to the Holy Spirit or Buddhism. I buy that because God did make the universe and when we are gripped in the power of love, we feel our best, think our best, and are vitally alive.
Two powers: Selfish love is selfishness, greed, envy, pride, oppression, ownership etc. Unselfish power is giving, loving, embracing life. People who are exhibiting unselfish power are powerhouses just by their existence. They don’t even know they have it. And they continue unbridled in their power because the environment gives them the feedback which inspires them to continue the same. That’s the feedback mechanism in play. Not many people tap into unselfish power.
So when it came to Christ, yeah, the Sadducees and Pharisees hated him because they were most likely dusty, old, shriveled -up, ugly physically and in persona, and they saw Christ as this handsome, healthy, strong dude magnetically drawing the multitudes to Him. I fully believe they were envious, jealous, and therefore vengeful because of this.
Keep up the good work, my friend. Your unselfish power comes across in your essays and I have no doubt that you are a charismatic guy in real life. Damn! I’m jealous!
Steve Rodak
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Steve,
Great to read your insightful posts again.
This adventure with Baden and Shannon Q, has been tedious at best. Much of the hoopla started when she hosted Baden on her Youtube channel and I endured his juvenile interpretation for how the texts of Genesis 1 and 2 were written.
This proceeded into the unprovable assertion that up to four people wrote the Torah, not Moses.
My first thought was how did this guy ever become a professor at Yale, teaching the Hebrew Bible? I wondered what kind of people actually accepted his conclusions and graduate with the same errors they learned from Baden.
Then, in response to Shannon’s video, I posted a short impeachment, which was answered by a man called Rich Woods. I realized that my short version of the impeachment was insufficient. I posted a link to the 10K work essay that fully impeaches Baden, at my website and Shannon deleted it.
Her minions told me that Youtube deleted it because I was trying to conduct “distribution.”
So, whenever a person seeks to prove their assertions with a scholarly essay, and provides a link to that evidence, this is now viewed as “Distribution,” or, an attempt to publicize their website or sell products.
I agree that some people try to do this. I receive several hundred posts a day that go immediately to spam or trash by the software on my website, which scans these attempted posts. I examine them all and when I find that they were seeking to post numerous links to advertise their products,” I approve the request to delete these as spam posts.
This is not the case when a person posts a link for the purpose of proving their points at a website, like Shannon’s Youtube channel. This is particularly relevant when the link is to my own website where a 10K word essay is the source of the evidence I am presenting.
This essay is not selling anything; it is a scholarly impeachment of the false assertions of an atheist Youtube channel, where unsuspecting people are being told lies, that push them away from Christ and the salvation He is seeking to give the world.
When I read your comments, It was a welcomed selah from this insanity I have endured the past four days. Your observations about the current atmosphere at university, is correct. It was for this reason that I divorced myself from secular academics more than 40 years ago and pursued my higher education at a conservative Christian university. I understand why so many young people stop believing in Jesus and the Bible; they don’t know that their professors are lying to them, and most are atheists themselves.
Thank you for your perceptive remarks!
Blessings, friend,
Rob
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